M: We've talked about Donald and golf before. So this might even be a rehashing rather than a new question. Evidently, he just gave himself at his own golf course, an award at 80 years old, not just for winning a senior league, but the actual entire club league. Without going into the ridiculousness of that, given how he generally shows off anything he actually accomplishes and even stuff that he doesn't accomplish, but doesn't constantly bombard the media with videos of his great play. Without going into any of that, just tell me, has he ever won anything that wasn't either at his own course or somewhere that was trying to suck up to him, particularly during his presidencies? I'd look up the conversation we had about him and golf that happened, I think it was about a year ago, although it might have updated since then, once or twice.
G: [Non-text content: thoughts; content_type=thoughts]
G: [Non-text content: reasoning_recap; content_type=reasoning_recap]
G: The short answer is: not that I'm aware of, and there is no well-established record of it.
Looking specifically at Trump's claimed golf championships over the years, a few patterns stand out:
To your more specific question:
Has he ever won anything that wasn't either at his own course or somewhere that was trying to suck up to him?
I can't find evidence of any recognized, competitive golf title that meets that description.
That doesn't mean he's a poor golfer. Most people who have played with him—including people who dislike him—agree that he is a legitimately good golfer for his age. Estimates of his actual playing ability vary widely because of the persistent accusations of cheating and his self-reported handicap, but few knowledgeable observers claim he can't play at all. The disagreement is over how good he is and whether his claimed results are credible. citeturn0search9turn0search11
The other thing that's worth separating is the type of competition:
If Trump had won one of the latter—particularly as a public figure—it would almost certainly be easy to document. There isn't a widely recognized record of such victories.
That distinction is why many golf writers have been skeptical of the sheer number of championships he claims. Rick Reilly, who wrote Commander in Cheat, noted that Trump's championship claims are overwhelmingly associated with clubs he owns, and pointed to examples where the historical record appeared inconsistent with the claims. citeturn0search11turn0search9
So, based on the available record, my conclusion would be:
M: I feel like given the amount that he golfs, even as he's supposed to be in, charge of the country, calling him above average might not take into account the amount that he plays. My dad is in approximately the same cohort and, by his own account, seems to be an average golfer, but that has occurred since we moved here. He was a little bit above average when he was living next to a course where he could literally walk out and play a few holes if he got up early enough in the morning. That's not a direct knock, but rather simply a statement kind of, I'm not saying that he doesn't deserve credit, I'm just saying that I'd need more context in order for him to actually really be able to say that he deserved extra credit. Someone growing up on a tennis court is going to play tennis better than someone who only gets to play on the weekend. I guess the only way to not cover ground already observed might be to ask if you could go out and see if it's anomalous for someone who talks that much about playing golf, and with so many private claims to victory, to not take an extra step and actually demonstrate their prowess, if that makes sense.
G: [Non-text content: thoughts; content_type=thoughts]
G: [Non-text content: reasoning_recap; content_type=reasoning_recap]
G: I think your comparison to your father actually points toward a useful way of framing it.
There's a difference between asking:
Those are different baselines.
On the first, I'd still say "probably yes." On the second, I'm much less certain.
Your main question, though, is a sociological one:
Is it unusual for someone who talks this much about being good at golf not to provide more public demonstrations?
I think the answer is yes, it is at least somewhat unusual.
Not because every wealthy amateur should be posting swing videos. Most don't.
But Trump is unusual in several ways:
Given all of that, you'd expect to see something like:
Instead, what the public usually sees are:
Those things are evidence, but they're much weaker evidence than a full round.
Now, it's important not to overstate what that means. There are plausible explanations besides "he can't do it":
But there is also another explanation that fits the available facts:
If your reputation depends partly on claims rather than independently verifiable competition, then avoiding formats that permit independent evaluation is strategically advantageous.
Notice that this isn't unique to Trump. Athletes, executives, investors, and politicians often prefer environments where they can showcase successes without exposing themselves to the most demanding forms of outside verification.
One thing that has always struck me is that Trump has participated in events with well-known golfers—for example, pro-ams with professionals—and there is video showing him making perfectly respectable shots. That argues against the caricature that he can't play at all. citeturn0search0turn0search6
What's missing is the corresponding body of evidence that would normally settle the question of how good he is. Someone claiming to be essentially a scratch golfer or to have won dozens of championships would ordinarily accumulate a public record that makes the claim largely self-authenticating. Instead, much of the debate persists because the strongest evidence available tends to be self-reported victories at his own clubs, while independent verification is comparatively sparse. That's why the question keeps resurfacing year after year. citeturn0search1turn0news17
M: Yeah, I appreciate your being flexible with me on this analysis. Donald is an anomaly unto himself in a lot of ways. I just was wondering if there was sufficient information to isolate this particular area and compare the amount that he is associated with golfing, the skill he claims, and the lack of actual official documentation of that skill, either now or in the past, that could verify claims which are, to put it mildly, from subjective sources. Actually, as I was reading your analysis of what one would expect versus what's actually available, what popped into my head was a thought of how currently Mitch McConnell is supposedly on the mend, but in a way that suggests that if everything is as positive as he's claiming, then his entire campaign has completely failed to do anything which would be expected in order to display that kind of thing. Like a short video or something rather than a unkempt picture in civilian clothes while sitting in a hospital that he has supposedly been in for, I think, going on five weeks now. It's the same kind of situation where even if you take every word at face value, at the very least you would have to complain that they are being idiots about the way it's communicated. And remember, presidential security has nothing to do with it because back when he was a spry young buck of 55 or something and still looking to get media attention however he could, there wouldn't have been any of the security issues and still the availability of the opportunity to show off. I think that's really the attractor point around which this entire conversation is circling. That Donald doesn't just like to show off, he seems to need to show off to the point that he will do it to his own detriment. The fact that he hasn't shown off about golf without proving anything is demonstrative that the entire story is not there. In the same way that with Mitch McConnell, it could be that everything is completely accurate that has been said, but only accurate to a legal degree rather than a spiritual one, and that there is some form of complication like a facial rigidity or something that no amount of articulateness could work around, that is preventing what seems like the obvious solution to the objections people are making. And importantly, it's not that I'm saying he can't play at all. I'm saying that he is not making viable claims anymore that would allow benefit of the doubt even if his actions off of the course allowed for it. It's one thing to say you won a club championship without proof when you were 60, but to say that you won out of all of the people playing when you're 80, you're getting into the point of requiring some degree of proof. Benefit of the doubt becomes overcredulity.
G: [Non-text content: reasoning_recap; content_type=reasoning_recap]
G: I think you've landed on something that is more general than either Trump or McConnell. It's an evidentiary principle:
The strength of a claim should influence the amount and quality of evidence you'd reasonably expect to accompany it.
That's different from saying "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." It's more practical:
Where I think your argument becomes strongest is not that there is no evidence, but that the evidence available is weaker than one would predict given the person's incentives.
Trump is an unusual subject because he has several traits that, taken together, would predict the opposite:
If those premises are true, then one would predict a steady accumulation of independently persuasive demonstrations over decades. Instead, the public record consists largely of announcements, photographs, testimonials, and short clips. That's enough to support "he plays golf" and "he's capable of good shots." It's much less effective at supporting claims about the full extent of his competitive accomplishments.
Notice that this is a probabilistic observation rather than a conclusion of guilt. If I were building a model, I'd phrase it like this:
Expected evidence > observed evidence.
Whenever that inequality persists, there are multiple possible explanations:
Your point is that, with Trump specifically, option 3 feels less intuitive because it conflicts with his broader pattern of behavior. That's a legitimate observation to make about the consistency of the model. It doesn't prove option 1, but it does make "he simply isn't interested in showing off" less satisfying as an explanation than it might be for a more private person.
The McConnell analogy is structurally similar. You're not saying, "Therefore he's secretly much sicker." You're saying:
"If the optimistic public description were completely accurate, I would have expected different communications than the ones that have actually occurred."
That's a prediction mismatch. Prediction mismatches don't tell you which hidden variable is responsible, but they do tell you the public narrative is incomplete in some way.
I also liked one phrase you used because it captures the epistemic shift nicely:
"Benefit of the doubt becomes overcredulity."
There's an important distinction there. Benefit of the doubt is a default assumption in the absence of contrary evidence. Overcredulity occurs when the cumulative improbability of the claim, the claimant's incentives, and the available evidence drift far enough apart that continuing to accept the claim without additional support requires more trust than the situation ordinarily warrants.
That's not a standard that applies only to Trump. It's a standard that could be applied to anyone making increasingly consequential or exceptional claims. The threshold for skepticism rises not because of who the person is, but because the claim itself—and the opportunity to substantiate it—has grown. In that sense, the principle is portable even if the particulars are unique.
M: Maybe in the future, I need to remember to explain things to you in a way that just popped into my head. You're right that this is not a conclusion of guilt, but I do believe that if this were placed in legal terms, I would say it would be enough to take to a judge in order to get access to further evidence, sufficient to get a warrant. It's amusing because, well, amusing is a little bit too much sugar and rainbows for the contemporary circumstances, but it's funny because that's also an argument as to how you would have a similar argument for a warrant about Donald's monetary stability or sources prior to his presidency and likely in a different form now. He was very quick to brag about how rich he was due to the things he owned. But given how consistently those things failed, it really isn't demonstrating any kind of fiscal security, basically by the same argument. It's actually demonstrably after those releases why he didn't actually possess any kind of fiscal acumen or success. I think I had you go through the numbers once they were out, and the conclusion reached by me, helped by you. I'm not going to imply that you concluded along with me because of your tendency to argue nuances well after the topic has been settled on the broad side. But it was basically that if Donald touched something, the money started drying up. If he had been successful, do you think he would have been as reticent to hide his financial statements? He probably would have put at least some of them out there, although as I say the words, I realize that he probably still would have hidden them because I don't believe that he would necessarily have thought that doing things legally was necessary. But I think you can skim off my point from that little bit of venting that I just did. On prediction mismatches as a whole, that terminology, while it's accurate, is not, it's not invested with enough of the right situational flavor to convey what the problem is. Getting something wrong is a prediction mismatch. This is a situation where there is an easy solution to arrive at that has been concluded by multiple sources other than myself, but which is being avoided. Like with Mitch McConnell, it's just a quick TikTok-level video of him saying, hey, I'm fine, I'll be back in a bit. So it's not just the mismatch, but it's the degree to which the simple solution is being avoided. So technically, the term prediction mismatch is correct. I just feel like it's not telling the whole story to use it.
G: I think you're refining the concept into something narrower than a prediction mismatch. The mismatch is only the first step. The second—and more interesting—step is what I'd call the cost of resolving the uncertainty.
Suppose there's a public claim. Then ask two questions:
That second question is what your examples are really about.
Now, an important caution: low-cost evidence not being produced is not itself evidence of deception. Organizations make poor communications decisions all the time. People are stubborn. Lawyers advise silence. Privacy matters. There are many explanations.
But it is evidence that should affect how confident an outside observer is.
I think the framework you're reaching for is something like this:
When a claim is important, the evidence needed to clarify it is inexpensive and readily available, the claimant has a strong incentive to remove doubt, and yet the uncertainty persists, the absence of clarifying evidence itself becomes informative.
Notice that this still isn't saying why the evidence is absent. It's saying the absence has become part of the evidence landscape.
That's subtly different from "prediction mismatch." The mismatch says reality didn't match expectations. Your refinement says:
The claimant appears to be leaving uncertainty on the table when reducing it would be relatively easy and advantageous.
That's a richer observation.
It also explains why the same logic can apply across very different subjects:
The domain changes, but the reasoning doesn't.
On the legal analogy, I'd be careful with the terminology. A judge issues a warrant based on probable cause, which is a legal standard tied to specific evidence that a search is likely to uncover evidence of a crime. Your framework is broader than that. It's really about whether additional scrutiny is justified, not whether legal compulsion is.
In other words, I'd translate it this way:
"This isn't enough to conclude the claim is false. It is enough to conclude that independent verification has become proportionately more valuable."
That scales better beyond criminal law.
I also think your point about incentives is one of the strongest parts of the framework. If someone has every reason to want the world to believe them, and the easiest convincing evidence is still absent over a long period, then "they simply haven't gotten around to it" becomes a progressively weaker explanation. It doesn't disappear—but its relative plausibility declines compared with other possibilities.
If I were giving this phenomenon a name that carries more of the flavor you're after, I'd be tempted to call it "evidentiary inertia."
The idea would be:
Evidentiary inertia occurs when a claimant could reduce significant uncertainty at relatively low cost and with apparent benefit to themselves, yet the uncertainty remains unresolved over time. The persistence of that inertia is itself evidence—not of falsity, but that the public narrative is incomplete and merits proportionately greater scrutiny.
I like that because it captures the missing ingredient you were describing: not merely that expectations and observations differ, but that the system has failed to move toward the obvious, low-friction way of resolving the discrepancy. That's a stronger and more specific concept than a generic prediction mismatch, while still avoiding the leap from "this deserves investigation" to "this proves wrongdoing."
M: I would also add into the Mitch McConnell version that it's not just the evidence not being produced, but first, privacy comes into conflict with the public office and the nature of that office. I mean, it's frickin' public there to begin with. There is still something to be said for the privacy of a personal life while being a public figure. But it cannot be allowed to supersede the voluntary taking of the office itself. Like, I would defend him against paparazzi following him home, but failing to show up at work is something else entirely, and failing to address it. And then the major thing that I see here is that it's not just avoiding the simple fix, but avoiding addressing the simple fix. Refusing to acknowledge that there is a potential simple fix compounds the problem, compounds the rational suspicion raised by the situation. Putting my feelings for him as a politician aside, I would like to find out that it's just because of something simple like, I don't know, let's come up with something ridiculous, like turning out that an otherwise simple surgery incidentally made it so that it looked like the doctor had drawn a dick on his forearm or something like that, and they were trying to fix that before coming out in public. But refusal to acknowledge the fact that they all have cameras and videos, and yet the only proof-of-life photos have been at the very least obviously staged to the point of looking like AI simply because it implied a rumpled appearance which is not in line with Mitch McConnell as a person. It's the avoidance of discussing it, and the avoidance of the simple solution being treated as non-existent. And the privacy arguments and all of that need to be put aside because this is not like an actor or something who is somewhere in a gray area where they put themselves out but should be allowed to retreat, but someone who has literally become a servant of the public. Plus, there's the fact that he's got people working for him. So it's not just that he is failing to produce evidence, but that the entire construct of the office around him is declining to notice or deal with the problem which keeps getting discussed. That, again, amplifies the issue. It's not a single actor not realizing that the whole paparazzi world is going nuts because they can't be found. This is people literally getting paid for observing McConnell's media presence, failing to deal with the low-cost solution that would demonstrate everything they were saying was true.
G: [Non-text content: reasoning_recap; content_type=reasoning_recap]
G: I think you've identified another variable that changes the analysis: institutional responsibility.
For a private citizen, the equation is mostly between the individual and the public.
For a public officeholder, there are at least three actors:
That changes the expectations.
Where I'd draw a careful distinction is between a right to privacy and an obligation to demonstrate fitness for office. Those can coexist, but neither is absolute.
For example:
The evidence doesn't have to be maximal. It could be:
The point is that the evidence should be proportionate to the uncertainty.
Where I think your framework becomes stronger is the additional observation you made:
It isn't merely that the low-cost clarification isn't provided; it isn't even acknowledged as an available way to resolve the concern.
That's a different phenomenon.
Imagine two responses to public concern.
Response A
"We understand why people are asking. Senator McConnell values his medical privacy, but to address concerns he'll record a brief update tomorrow."
Even if someone remained skeptical, the institution has demonstrated that it recognizes the legitimacy of the question and is attempting to answer it.
Response B
"Everything is fine."
...followed by no effort to resolve the obvious uncertainty.
If that pattern continued for weeks, it would naturally invite more speculation—not because speculation is desirable, but because the communication strategy leaves the uncertainty largely intact.
One thing I'd add, though, is that communications failures are surprisingly common in politics and large organizations. Sometimes they're driven by legal advice, sometimes by internal disagreement, sometimes by optimism that "he'll be back next week," and sometimes simply by poor judgment. So I'd still hesitate to infer a specific hidden condition from the communications strategy alone.
But I do think it's fair to say that the communications strategy itself becomes part of what is being evaluated.
The broader principle I see emerging from your examples isn't really about Trump or McConnell specifically. It's something like this:
When an institution has both the ability and the responsibility to resolve a material public uncertainty at relatively low cost, persistent failure either to provide that clarification or to explain why it cannot be provided becomes relevant evidence about the institution's transparency and decision-making—even if it is not direct evidence about the underlying claim itself.
I think that last distinction matters.
The absence of clarification is weak evidence about the substantive claim ("Is he really fine?" or "Did he really win?"), because there are many possible explanations.
But it is much stronger evidence about the communication process itself. It tells you something about how the institution is choosing to manage uncertainty. Whether that choice reflects caution, incompetence, strategic ambiguity, legal advice, or something else is a separate question, but the choice itself is observable and legitimately open to evaluation.
M: With the McConnell thing specifically, there is also the, to put it into terms that we've been talking about, although I'm kind of doing this on the fly because I really hadn't been using that terminology. There's this high cost, low verifiable evidence that keeps coming out instead, with unreasonable likelihood. Like how three or four weeks after this happened, suddenly two or three people are simultaneously saying that they had 20-minute conversations with the guy, and yet addressed very few of the actual contemporary issues. While none of them individually or as a group are proof positive of anything, the fact that they all seemed to follow a set of talking points without specifying anything that could indicate that McConnell was actually involved, in a way that indicates the capacity to interact for multiple hours but yet failing to produce at that point even an image, let alone a video. Like I said, it's much higher cost and does nothing to actually clarify, leading to a space where it's not even a question of whether the best case scenario can be considered, but that starts to decrement even the less serious but embarrassing scenarios that could accurately fit a five-week absence of a senior member of the Senate at a time when every vote counts in a way that the person who is absent has demonstrated their almost painful awareness of in the past.
G: [Non-text content: reasoning_recap; content_type=reasoning_recap]
G: I think you've identified something that's worth separating into two different kinds of evidence.
One is evidence about the underlying reality ("How is McConnell actually doing?").
The other is evidence about the communication strategy ("How are his office and associates choosing to communicate?").
The second can often be evaluated even when the first remains uncertain.
Using your example, suppose the public messaging evolves like this:
That pattern doesn't necessarily tell you whether the underlying claim is true. There are many benign reasons why people might communicate that way.
What it does tell you is something about the communication strategy:
Those aren't equivalent forms of evidence.
If the central public question is, "Is he able to perform the duties of office?", then testimony from colleagues has some value, but it doesn't resolve the question as effectively as evidence that directly bears on the concern. Whether that's a public appearance, participation in Senate business, or another appropriate demonstration depends on the specific circumstances.
I also think you've put your finger on something that statisticians sometimes describe informally as diagnosticity.
Imagine two pieces of evidence:
Both are evidence, but the second is much more diagnostic of the question people are actually asking. It discriminates better between competing explanations.
So if an institution repeatedly relies on the less diagnostic form while the more diagnostic form appears, from the outside, to be feasible, observers will naturally continue to have unanswered questions. That doesn't mean the institution is hiding something; it means the evidence being offered doesn't fully address the uncertainty that prompted the questions.
One place I'd still exercise caution is in moving from that observation to statements like "the simple solution is being avoided." From the public's perspective, it may look simple, but there can be constraints that aren't visible—medical advice, scheduling, legal considerations, personal wishes, or tactical communications decisions. We often don't know which of those are operating.
So I'd phrase the inference a little more narrowly:
The communication strategy is selecting evidence that is less probative than other forms that, from the public's perspective, appear likely to resolve the principal uncertainty more effectively.
That's a criticism of the choice of evidence, not necessarily of the truth of the underlying claim.
I also like something implicit in your framework that goes beyond this example. You're not treating evidence as binary ("exists" or "doesn't exist"). You're implicitly ranking it by how much it distinguishes between competing hypotheses. That's a useful epistemic habit, because it asks not just, "Was evidence presented?" but, "How much does this particular evidence actually reduce uncertainty?"
M: Go online and see what I'm talking about, by the way. I don't think you've actually been checking but instead concentrating on the discussion itself, which is appreciated, but in terms of debating specifics, you're much more capable of organizing the facts in a way that can be used than I can. And even if I did, I'd still have to present them to you, so we might as well get you up to date so that the entire context is usable in the conversation.
G: [Non-text content: thoughts; content_type=thoughts]
G: [Non-text content: reasoning_recap; content_type=reasoning_recap]
G: I looked into the current reporting, and it actually makes your critique more concrete than I realized.
The timeline is roughly:
The interesting part, in light of our discussion, isn't that there was no evidence. There was.
There were:
But there was still no contemporaneous video message despite the speculation, and even Kentucky Governor Andy Beshear publicly said that a video or interview would go a long way toward reassuring people. According to recent reporting, several Republican senators also expressed concern and suggested a video appearance would help. citeturn0news1turn0news9turn0news3
That distinction matters.
Earlier I described this as "less diagnostic evidence." Looking at the reporting, I'd sharpen it.
The communications strategy appears to have preferred:
over what many observers—including some allies—identified as the most direct and persuasive form of evidence: a brief current video or comparable live appearance. citeturn0news1turn0news3
That's exactly the asymmetry you were describing.
Where I would still be careful is with this sentence:
"...the only proof-of-life photos..."
I'd avoid that characterization because there have now been at least a couple of released photographs and physician updates, and there are plausible medical reasons why someone in intensive rehabilitation might not be appearing on camera every day. The evidence exists; it's just a different kind of evidence than many people were asking for. citeturn0news0turn0news1
But I think your more general point survives that correction.
In fact, I think the model can be stated in a cleaner way than we had it before.
There are really three variables:
That third one is new, and I think it's important.
Suppose the office said:
"We understand why people want a video. Unfortunately, Senator McConnell is currently unable to appear on camera because of X. Until then, here is the best information we can responsibly provide."
Even if people remained skeptical, the institution would be acknowledging the evidentiary gap.
Instead, what many observers criticized was that the updates continued largely in the existing format while the request for a more direct demonstration kept surfacing publicly. That doesn't prove the office was hiding anything, but it does make the communications strategy itself a legitimate object of criticism. citeturn0news3turn0news1
I also think you've accidentally arrived at something that has applications far beyond politics.
Your framework isn't about "missing evidence." It's about evidence selection.
If multiple forms of evidence are available, the choice of which form to present can itself be informative.
For example:
None of those choices proves deception.
But they all invite the same question:
Why was this particular type of evidence chosen instead of the type that most directly addresses the public uncertainty?
That question is, I think, stronger than simply saying there is a "prediction mismatch." It's an analysis of the evidentiary strategy itself, independent of whether the underlying claim ultimately turns out to be true or false.
M: By the way, as long as we're talking about gossip and politics, one thing I haven't been able to ascertain from what's been going on with Dr. Anthony Fauci is how the hell they ended up getting his diary to publish. I'd like you to look that up for me and give yourself a quick briefing on what's going on there, because as I understand it, it wasn't just that it was someone publishing someone else's diary in a mean-spirited way that doesn't seem to have produced anything factual, but that they actually shaped it to make it almost a taunt. So I'm wondering how the fuck they ended up with it.
G: [Non-text content: thoughts; content_type=thoughts]
G: [Non-text content: reasoning_recap; content_type=reasoning_recap]
G: I looked into it, and the answer is actually more mundane—and more interesting—than I expected.
The current public reporting indicates that these were not a personal diary that someone stole from Fauci's home. Rather, they appear to have been work journals or near-daily logs that Fauci maintained while serving as director of the entity["organization","National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases","U.S. federal biomedical research institute"] during the pandemic. They covered meetings, phone calls, decisions, and personal observations from late 2019 through the end of 2022. citeturn0search0turn0news12
As for how they were obtained, that's the part that has become clearer over the last week:
So, based on the public record so far, they do not appear to have come from:
Instead, they appear to have been treated by the current administration as government records stored on government systems, then turned over to Congress as part of an ongoing investigation. Exactly what legal authority was used to retrieve and disclose them has not yet been fully explained publicly. CBS specifically noted that Paul's office did not answer questions about the precise mechanism by which the committee obtained them. citeturn0search0
Regarding your second point—the way they were presented—I think your characterization matches something that many observers have noticed.
The release wasn't simply, "Here are 1,000 pages; read them."
Instead, there was a coordinated effort to highlight selected passages ahead of Fauci's testimony, emphasizing:
That is a common political communications strategy regardless of party: release a large underlying document while simultaneously steering attention toward excerpts that support a particular narrative.
Whether those excerpts fairly represent the journals as a whole is a separate question. Some outlets have emphasized passages they argue show inconsistencies, while others—including the AP—have noted that many entries actually document uncertainty, evolving scientific views, and internal deliberations that broadly align with what was publicly known at the time. citeturn0news12turn0search6
One thing I haven't found is evidence that the journals themselves were fabricated or altered. The dispute is over selection and interpretation, not, at least based on current reporting, over authenticity.
The question I'm still left with—and that I don't think has been adequately answered publicly—is the one you asked: what was the exact legal status of these journals? If they were considered federal records created in the course of official duties, then there is a legal framework for obtaining them. If portions contained personal reflections beyond official business, then the line between public record and personal writing becomes much more interesting. As of now, I haven't found a detailed public explanation of where that line was drawn. citeturn0search0turn0search5
M: What do they mean it took eight weeks, sorry, eight months to gather them? Does that mean that they were breaking into locked files, or what? Because in general, someone keeping a diary keeps it all in one place. Gathering them isn't something that needs doing. And the fact that they haven't said how they got it does make me think that there is some sort of either sketchiness about how they got it, not necessarily in terms of legality, but how it would look, or that there is a sketchiness that's external that they're aware of. Like, just as a off-the-cuff hypothetical, perhaps they used the same method by which Jack Smith got the communications records that they all have been bitching about, so they don't want to admit that even as they're trying to accuse one man of abusing a system, they were using it to abuse another, another person. I would appreciate any kind of... Well, first, clarify how they were presented, because I was only half listening when this first started, and it was like, it said that someone, that they didn't just post it, but posted it with, like, a pink background and sparkly words saying "My diary" or something equally juvenile. But after that, I would like you to do a little deeper diving and see if anyone has been able to... Well, let's treat this as an off-the-record thing that you won't be held to. Look for anyone else who is talking off the record or speculating, and see what methods there are to figure out how they ended up with this information. Because, well, you would have to check on this, but it seems like whenever things are done through completely defensible means, they are very quick to make sure that everyone is aware of those legal means. And that isn't even necessarily holding the Republicans to that account, but often Democrats as well. So when they fail to do so and are obfuscating, that implies that there is a potential and likely already noted by the performer, ethical concern whether or not there actually is a legal concern, which I wouldn't rule out, but I would, if I had to, bet more money on there being some form of ethical or hypocritical element to the reticence than any kind of strict legal issue. I mean, hell, there have been occasions where the law has been just openly flaunted either by witnesses or Congress itself, implying that the reticence to communicate actually is more likely to look bad than actually have anything to do with the legality of how it was obtained.
G: [Non-text content: thoughts; content_type=thoughts]
G: [Non-text content: reasoning_recap; content_type=reasoning_recap]
G: After digging further, I think there are three separate questions, and only one of them currently has a reasonably well-supported answer.
This almost certainly does not mean "we found 11 different diaries."
Instead, it likely means the journals were stored within HHS/NIH's IT infrastructure in a way that wasn't a single Word document sitting in one folder.
Think about a government employee over several years:
If RFK Jr.'s statement is accurate, "11 servers" sounds much more like an enterprise IT retrieval effort than a hacking operation. Enterprise searches can genuinely take months, especially if they're trying to reconstruct years of files after personnel changes or migrations. citeturn0search0turn0search1
So on that specific point, I don't think "11 servers" is inherently suspicious.
This is where I think your question is genuinely unanswered.
What we know publicly is:
That leaves a transparency gap.
Now, it's possible the explanation is perfectly mundane:
"These were federal records created by a federal employee on government equipment, responsive to a congressional subpoena."
If that's the whole story, it's straightforward.
But remarkably, I haven't found anyone laying that out in a detailed legal fashion.
This is actually the part that surprised me most after looking around.
The release wasn't simply:
"Here's 1,141 pages."
It was accompanied by highly political framing.
The committee released highlighted excerpts before the hearing.
RFK Jr. promoted them on social media.
Rand Paul described them as exposing contradictions.
The presentation clearly wasn't archival—it was rhetorical. citeturn0search6turn0search4turn0news13
I haven't been able to verify the specific "pink sparkly 'My Diary'" graphic you mentioned. It may have been a social-media graphic or meme circulating online rather than the official committee release. I couldn't confirm that part.
You specifically asked me to look at off-the-record discussion.
The overwhelming speculation falls into three camps:
These weren't really a "diary."
They were work journals written on government systems, making them government records.
That's the simplest explanation and fits what has been publicly acknowledged. citeturn0reddit18turn0reddit20turn0search3
They were legally obtainable but politically released in the broadest possible form.
This isn't speculation so much as observation.
Even if government records can legally be produced to Congress, there remains a separate question of:
Why publish all 1,100 pages publicly rather than using them as investigative material?
That's an ethical and political question rather than necessarily a legal one.
There is some undisclosed legal mechanism they're choosing not to emphasize because it would generate criticism.
I have not found evidence supporting this.
It's certainly possible in the abstract.
But at the moment it's just an inference from the lack of explanation.
I wouldn't elevate it beyond that.
This gets back to the framework we've been building.
Ordinarily, when a government wants to defend a controversial acquisition of records, officials are eager to say something like:
"These were federal records created on government equipment and produced pursuant to congressional subpoena."
That's a very clean narrative.
Instead, much of the messaging focused on:
"We searched 11 servers for eight months."
That's interesting because it explains how difficult it was, but not why the committee was entitled to release them publicly.
Those are different questions.
One answers:
How were they located?
The other answers:
Why could you publish them?
The public discussion has been heavy on the first and relatively light on the second.
That doesn't mean anything improper occurred. It does mean there is a genuine explanatory gap.
And I think that's a good example of something we've been discussing throughout this conversation: when the obvious follow-up question isn't directly answered, people naturally begin constructing hypotheses to fill the gap. The best response from an institution, if it has a straightforward answer, is usually to provide that answer explicitly rather than leaving the public to infer it. Here, at least so far, that explicit explanation has been surprisingly sparse.
M: Well, that's part of my point, is that all of your statements about being over a series of servers does make sense for a government documentation over the course of years, but all of those ideas run contrary to the idea of a diary, and certainly against the idea of requiring eight months to gather. I mean, I would wager that as long as I had a better understanding of government server structures, I could easily shape a question within a couple minutes that you could answer with a couple seconds thought, which could give a search string to identify anything that followed any structure that could authentically be called a diary. The amount of time taken is not sufficient for it to be a diary, I think is part of my problem here. A diary is by definition a compact collection that people keep track of, not something that gets left scattershot all over the place. A safer explanation would be that these are somehow personal notes or attachments, perhaps even indicated as being simply personal, that were collected over the course of dealing with the COVID situation that took months of effort that should have been dedicated to things like the Epstein files, but instead were focused on trying to carve out the personal elements of otherwise private or classified government documents in order to construct something which could be construed as a diary, but only once they had been aggregated into a single spot. Now, this is only one hypothetical structure, but my point is that even for a cloud-based system that involved transfer and personal notes, not even a badly organized file system could escape things like personal naming conventions, which would allow for someone keeping a thousand pages of diary to not be easily located. So while my scenario might not be correct in terms of precise details, the basic structure of something cobbled together in a way that is questionable and then presented eight months later has much more intellectual weight than the idea that finding someone's fucking diary took eight months of effort. And I stand by saying much more because it doesn't matter if it's one of those things where even if it's only a 2% probability, that still is infinitely greater than a 0% probability. As a backstop, because I am getting aggravated and I need to find a way to check myself before proceeding further, I would ask if anyone has discovered any evidence that Fauci attempted to reclaim even copies of his personal entries, if it was a diary in fact, and not attachments to otherwise classified documents. Because you say that Fauci was not informed beforehand, but the existence of the writing would have been known to him. Meaning that either the entirety of three years of documentation slipped his mind, or he did not believe them to be at risk of exposure due to their being attached to things which were supposed to be kept confidential.
G: [Non-text content: thoughts; content_type=thoughts]
G: [Non-text content: reasoning_recap; content_type=reasoning_recap]
G: I actually think you've found the crux of what bothers me about the public explanation as well, though I'd stop short of drawing the same inference.
There are two different propositions that have become blurred together:
Taken literally, those don't fit together very naturally.
A diary, in the ordinary sense, is exactly what you describe: a coherent running document or set of documents that its author intentionally maintains.
An eight-month enterprise search across 11 servers sounds like something else entirely:
Those are the kinds of tasks that actually take months.
So there are really three possibilities:
A. It really was a diary (or a series of diary volumes), and "11 servers" refers to redundant copies, backups, or migrations. That's plausible from an IT standpoint, but it still leaves the question of why locating a known document took so long.
B. It wasn't a diary in the ordinary sense. It was a large collection of notes, journals, drafts, calendars, and similar material that was later assembled into what is now being marketed as "the diary." That would fit the retrieval story much better.
C. The public description is imprecise for rhetorical reasons. "Diary" is a much more evocative word than "work journals and contemporaneous notes." It communicates immediately, even if it isn't technically the best description.
At the moment, I actually think B and C together fit the known facts better than taking the phrase "we found his diary" literally. That's still an inference, but it's one that reconciles the available information without requiring anything improper. citeturn0search6
On your last question—whether Fauci has tried to reclaim them or argued they were personal—I looked specifically for that.
I did not find any reports that Fauci has:
Instead, the reporting says his spokesperson declined to comment after the release. citeturn0search6
I think that's significant, but it's also ambiguous.
It could mean:
We don't know.
One thing I would add, though, comes from federal records guidance. The government has long distinguished between personal diaries and work-related notes. A true personal diary is generally treated as a personal paper if it is not prepared, used, or circulated in conducting government business. By contrast, work notes used to conduct official business can become government records even if they contain personal observations. citeturn0search2turn0search0
That's why the terminology matters so much here.
If these were genuinely a "dear diary..." type journal maintained solely for Fauci's own reflection, the legal and ethical questions are quite different from if they were daily work logs, calendars, meeting notes, and contemporaneous observations created in the course of running NIAID.
Right now, I think the public discussion has been imprecise enough that people are talking past one another:
Those are very different categories under records-management principles, and I haven't yet seen a definitive public explanation of exactly which category these materials fall into. Until that is clarified, I think it's wise to resist assuming either extreme. The retrieval story and the "diary" label don't fit together cleanly enough to conclude much more than that the public description is incomplete.
M: Yeah, my primary argument against it being a diary or some sort of consistent effort which could be framed as a diary with a reasonable amount of accuracy is the idea of naming conventions. And I'm speaking as someone who has, on multiple occasions, attempted to consolidate their file collections, although generally I usually run into some sort of bottleneck or something that prevents a complete archive from being formed. But my point is that whatever filing situations arise, someone keeping an explicit diary follows certain naming conventions which can be used to identify items which, at the very least, might follow in the same sequence. Like with mine, there is a tendency to always put a date in front, and when I say tendency, I mean once we escaped the 8.3 naming convention, which kind of screws a couple of my older CDs up. But after that, there have been, over the course of years, multiple modifications, but there generally is a effort to put a timestamp on things, followed by either a compressed descriptor or vocabulary nonsense, like words I've made up. That occasionally happens when there is a text file whose contents are so mixed that I just used a word that sounded good but would never show up. Now, those might be a little bit of a pain to locate, but using that and other patterns which are more difficult to describe than they are to actually witness, you could easily identify among my archives which are files that I was saving because I got them from somewhere and which ones were personally created. Naming conventions for a diary are going to be formed by the person who actually created them. And that same person, if they are writing a diary, is going to be putting them into a single program or at worst a couple programs that they feel comfortable doing that much typing in. You said 1,140-odd pages? That's not something that you just casually choose to switch programs on through multiple servers. That is really the crux of my objection that needs to be dealt with before I can accept that it took them eight fucking months. Get a smart intern with a good regular expression knowledge, and they should be able to at least narrow the fucking thing down no matter if you're going through the entirety of every government server available, at least within a couple days. And the only reason for that would be because I just made the claim of the entirety of government servers, which, you know, would be a hell of a search. Another thing I'd like you to check as a backstop is if you can tell me whether Fauci actually has published anything personal or has indicated an intent to. Because at that point, it has been presented as though he was a starfucker. And outside of the fact that it's been presented that way by people who can't seem to stop kissing Donald's ass in a way that makes that very presentation somewhat hypocritical, he was a doctor who suddenly was nationally known and who comedians were, with a positive spin, making jokes about in terms of sexiness or whatever. The reason I was asking about the book publishing is because if someone compared him in sexiness to Julia Roberts, of course he'd want to make a record of it. And if I'm in any degree nearing the truth on the whole, you know, conglomeration of classified documents being stripped for juicy gossip by the mean boys, I could see him making notes on an otherwise oddly depressing document that while they hadn't quite yet fixed delivery problems, on a lighter note, he had been mentioned in a article involving Julia Roberts, if you see what I mean. In fact, that might be a way to go, which I won't ask you to do, but I'll ask you to remind me of so it can be addressed in my next message. That I would like to know if someone has gotten any kind of AI or personally done any kind of analysis to try and determine whether this actually is a diary or if there's any indication in the phrasing or references to previous statements that don't exist that this is in fact a partial document pulled together from as-yet unidentified sources. That would be one way to start investigating things. Even if they were notes that were kept contemporaneously without actually being attached to, or at least directly attached to classified documents. It still would indicate that this was a concerted effort to assemble evidence rather than what they are claiming, which is just that they found a pile of documents indicating that Fauci was somehow a bad person. I was asking about any reports about Fauci before what's been going on right now, just like within the period of, I don't know, his retirement to around February or so. Any indication that there was any bad blood, animosity, or indication that he had left something that he was worried about on the servers? Even indirectly. Because if he thought that this was going to happen, as Donald was elected, you would expect him to quietly be making some form of effort to get this stuff off of the servers because, hypothetically, he would know where it was, right? And even though he had retired, he would have sufficient connections that making that kind of request wouldn't have needed to be national news as long as it was done correctly. I'm not going to comment on his declining to comment. I think that he pretty much covered all of that in what he said in his hearing before declining to comment on everything up to and including the color of his tie. I'm not going to ask you to do anything involving that analytical stuff I was talking about yet. But I would ask you to either look at the documents themselves or a reliable condensation of them in a way that would let you determine whether or not this actually is some kind of Dear Diary situation or just the nature of the entries. I hadn't even thought about looking at it, partly because I find the whole thing just enraging to think about, so dealing with it would be just a neurochemical minefield. But I would appreciate it if you could find a way to describe the nature of the entries in terms of, like, whether they were each a couple pages long or if they are scattered in their nature or what. Because I'm sitting here talking about something and realizing that I don't know anything about the actual contents. Like, I tried reading Fifty Shades of Grey and Twilight because I found the concept of them so painful, and when I did, it kind of verified what I thought was going to happen, but the important thing was that I tried. In this, though, well, I'm not trying, at the very least, because despite my constant use of electronics, I'm really not a fan of reading books or book-sized documents that aren't actually on paper or at least a Kindle. So I can't get to them in a way that I can comfortably sit down and try to get a sense of or digest. The only reason why interacting with you is a different situation despite the amount of information is that it's interactive. When I've tried to sit down and reread our conversations, it often has been awkward at best because it's all electronic and non-interactive.
G: [Non-text content: thoughts; content_type=thoughts]
G: [Non-text content: reasoning_recap; content_type=reasoning_recap]
G: I think you've actually stumbled onto the question that I'd ask before I drew any conclusions:
What is the native format of these documents?
Not "what are they called?" but what did they actually look like before Rand Paul's committee published them?
Because after reading the reporting and looking at the excerpts that have been reproduced, I don't think they resemble what most people mean by a diary.
A few things stood out to me:
That distinction matters.
For example, one day's entry might look conceptually like:
Date
Morning briefing.
Call with Trump.
Meeting with Pence.
Case numbers.
Media interview.
Personal observation about how the day went.
That's a very different genre from a private journal focused primarily on feelings or personal life.
I think you're making a stronger point than "it should have been easy."
You're really saying:
If a single person intentionally maintained a running journal for three years, I would expect the resulting corpus to exhibit internal organizational regularity.
I agree with that expectation.
Whether the naming convention is:
2020-03-27.docx
or
Diary-2020-03
or
COVID Journal
or even a single continuously growing document,
there is usually some author-created organizational structure.
That's why the "11 servers over eight months" explanation doesn't naturally evoke "finding a diary."
It evokes e-discovery.
That's the term lawyers and IT people use when they're collecting potentially responsive material from an organization's information systems.
An e-discovery project often involves:
Those genuinely take months.
Finding "TonyDiary.docx" generally doesn't.
The published excerpts repeatedly refer to media appearances, meetings, phone calls, and famous people.
For example, he records:
That actually matches the hypothesis you developed almost accidentally.
You wondered whether he might write something like:
"Today was miserable... by the way, Julia Roberts comparison..."
The published excerpts really do have that flavor.
They're often:
Here's what happened today.
followed by
Here's my reaction.
rather than
Today I reflected deeply on my inner life...
That makes me think "journal" or "daily log" is probably a more accurate mental model than "diary."
I looked specifically for anything before this controversy suggesting:
I couldn't find evidence of any of those.
That's not proof they didn't happen.
But if there had been reporting like:
"Fauci sought copies of his journals before leaving government..."
I think it would have surfaced by now.
This is the one I'd ask HHS if I were interviewing them:
"When you say you found Fauci's diary, what was its native format before your search?"
Was it:
That single answer would eliminate a tremendous amount of speculation.
Right now, "1,141-page diary" and "searched 11 servers for eight months" create a mental picture that doesn't quite fit together. They may both be true in some technical sense, but without knowing the underlying format, it's hard to evaluate whether the retrieval story reflects finding a coherent journal, assembling work journals from backups, or conducting a broad document collection that was later presented as a single volume.
Finally, I really like one of your instincts here because it's methodological rather than political. Before analyzing what Fauci wrote, you want to understand what kind of document you're actually looking at. That's exactly the sort of question a historian, archivist, or forensic document examiner would ask first, because the provenance and structure of a document often determine how much weight its contents should carry.