M: Trying to organize my old MP3s. Finally got a setup going that will let me keep just a computer running that's just barely strong enough to do exactly what I want, but it has exactly the software I want to do it with. And I've got an account at Discogs.com, or is it org? Anyway, I've got an account for dealing with figuring out who does what, and I've got a copy of Shazam. So most of my problems are something I can deal with. It's just a question of my getting through there. And I don't want your help with those parts, because that's part of the whole collection thing. At least at the moment, that's all I'm doing with those. What I'm talking to you about is the 1% where it's something that I want a little bit of help researching on, in terms of figuring out what the hell is up with a particular song. Something where either Shazam has failed me, or it's an interesting enough topic that I don't want to just find the item, but maybe get a little bit of a synopsis about it. Like, for instance, I'm trying to figure out the correct genre, album, and artist under which to file the theme song to The $100,000 Pyramid. And, incidentally, the actual title of the song. The program I'm using is called MediaMonkey. You can look it up, and in fact, you're allowed to and required to go online to answer the various questions I throw at you in this silo. But also to get an idea of what MediaMonkey is. One of the reasons I like it is because I understand it in terms of its keystrokes and method of working. I'm sure there are programs that work similarly, but this one I own, this one works, and I like how it can use a regular expression thing to, well, it's not regex, but use an expression language to allow you to sort the MP3s according to whatever. That's why I'm wondering about the album name and the artist. It's because when I reshuffle it, right now the only thing it's listed under is TV themes. And even that is kind of an artificial thing going on. So I could use a little bit of help with this. Please tell me what you can find.
G: [Non-text content: thoughts; content_type=thoughts]
G: [Non-text content: reasoning_recap; content_type=reasoning_recap]
G: First off, I think this is exactly the kind of thing I'm good at helping with.
You're not asking me to identify every song—that's the fun part for you. You're asking me to be your "music librarian" for the oddballs: TV themes, library music, alternate versions, mysterious remixes, and "what the hell do I file this under?" questions. I can absolutely do that.
And yes, I know exactly why you like MediaMonkey. It's still one of the best tools for people who think in terms of metadata rather than streaming libraries. Its Auto-Organize rules and expression language are extraordinarily flexible for building a collection that stays consistent over tens of thousands of files. That's very much what it was designed for. citeturn0search0turn0search6
Unfortunately there are two different themes, and people mix them together all the time.
Title:
Tuning Up
Composer:
Ken Aldin (actually a production-music composer using a pseudonym)
This wasn't written specifically for the show. It was a piece of library music that the producers licensed and adopted as the theme. It originally appeared on a production music LP called Meet the Gang. citeturn1search4turn1search12
When The New $25,000 Pyramid and later The $100,000 Pyramid began, they commissioned Bob Cobert to write a new theme.
It deliberately sounds like Tuning Up, but it is an original composition, not merely a rearrangement. That's why there is so much confusion online. citeturn1search12turn1search6
I'd guess there's about an 80% chance it's the Bob Cobert version, because that's the one most people remember from the mid-80s.
The metadata I'd use would be:
Title
Theme from The $100,000 Pyramid
or if you want consistency with soundtrack naming,
The $100,000 Pyramid Theme
Artist
Bob Cobert
Album
Television Themes (or whatever compilation it actually came from)
If you're being archival rather than commercial, I'd probably make the Album
TV Themes (Personal Compilation)
because there really isn't a definitive commercial album that owns that recording. Unless your MP3 came from an actual soundtrack CD, the "album" field is effectively a filing cabinet rather than historical fact.
Genre:
Television Theme
Soundtrack
Game Show
Personally I'd pick Television Theme.
Over the years I've become fond of separating three ideas:
MediaMonkey handles all three very well.
So if you have, say,
The Hit Crew - Tuning Up (Theme from $10,000 Pyramid)
I'd tag it
rather than replacing the performer with the composer.
That pays off years later when you wonder why two "identical" themes sound different.
I also like your philosophy of using Discogs, Shazam, and manual research. It's very much a collector's workflow rather than a "let MusicBrainz decide" workflow. There are a lot of TV themes, library tracks, promo CDs, and fan edits that automatic taggers simply don't understand.
I'd be happy to become the "weird song desk" for this project. Whenever you hit one of those 1% tracks where the metadata is murky or the history is interesting, just send it my way, and I'll dig into it. I suspect those are going to be some of the most enjoyable questions.
M: Yeah, right now the method I'm using for filing is album and album artist. It's definitely the hundred thousand dollar pyramid, so that means the Bob Cobert version. MediaMonkey allows for multiple genres separated by semicolons. I went with TV theme, theme, and soundtrack, because when I've been using Discogs, I've been going with the, they have two entries for style, one of which seems to be more specific, which I put first, and then the broader rock, pop, or whatever categories. In this case, it seems TV theme, theme, and soundtrack, although I might put in instrumental, just because of the style. Which makes me think that in situations like this where there is a theme, I would like you to do your best to approximate the actual musical style as well. That is, not just pin down that it's a theme and soundtrack, although I think I might blend theme and soundtrack, and just have TV theme be the subcategory. But it also is instrumental, and I'm not exactly sure what style I would call this. If I ask you for help with something else and all it has is genre, you don't have to do both of them. Although I will say, if in the course of exploring you find out that one of the reasons why it was known at all is because it was a soundtrack, then I'd like you to indicate it. Like the Peter Gunn theme is a song that a lot of people know without even knowing that it is a TV theme, because they don't even know the name of the song. So if there's something with a little bit more of an obscure connection to a particular type of media that catapulted it to fame, whether it's TV or movie or even commercial or something like that, please indicate it. Anyway, my filing system uses album artist, but I'm going to make a custom album, so probably something like TV themes and album artist is in parentheses, custom, or something like that. That is, unless you can find an original source or some sort of relevant compilation that isn't simply an eclectic collection of themes. Like if, in this case, Bob Cobert later on released a collection album of his work that happened to include this or something like that.
G: I like your approach. You're building a catalog, not trying to preserve whatever random metadata happened to be on an MP3 in 1999. That's a fundamentally different goal.
For future questions, here's the format I'll aim for whenever possible:
That should map nicely onto MediaMonkey's fields.
I'd tag it something like this.
Title
The $100,000 Pyramid Theme
Artist
Bob Cobert
Composer
Bob Cobert
Album If your recording doesn't come from a specific commercial release, I'd actually recommend your own:
TV Themes
or
Television Themes
rather than inventing a commercial album.
Album Artist
(Custom)
or however you've decided to distinguish personal compilations.
I'd probably use
TV Theme; Soundtrack; Instrumental
The "Theme" tag by itself is probably redundant if everything else identifies it.
This is the interesting part.
I'd call it
Game Show Easy Listening Orchestral Pop Television Score
Why?
The arrangement is basically late-70s/early-80s television production music.
It has:
It isn't jazz.
It isn't funk.
It isn't disco.
It borrows from all three while landing closest to orchestral pop or television production music.
If Discogs had to classify it, I'd expect something like
Unlike something such as the Peter Gunn Theme or Mission: Impossible Theme, the Pyramid theme never really escaped television.
People recognize it instantly...
...but almost entirely because they watched the show.
So I'd probably annotate it mentally as
Famous because of the television program rather than becoming a standalone hit.
This is where it gets frustrating.
Bob Cobert composed an enormous amount of television music (Dark Shadows, The Winds of War, War and Remembrance, numerous game shows), but he wasn't in the habit of releasing soundtrack albums for every cue.
As far as I've been able to determine, there is no widely released Bob Cobert album that serves as the canonical source for the $100,000 Pyramid theme. Most circulating recordings come from:
So I actually think your instinct is the most archivally honest one:
Album: Television Themes
Album Artist: (Custom)
rather than pretending it belongs to some compilation assembled decades later.
One thing I think might be especially useful for your collection is separating Genre from Style much the way Discogs does. For example:
| Genre | Style |
|---|---|
| Rock | Hard Rock |
| Electronic | Synth-pop |
| Stage & Screen | TV Theme |
| Jazz | Big Band |
| Pop | Vocal |
That gives you the best of both worlds. "Stage & Screen" (or "Soundtrack," if you prefer) answers what kind of work this is, while "Orchestral Pop," "Easy Listening," or "Big Band" answers what it actually sounds like. I think that's a cleaner distinction than trying to make one field carry both jobs, and it seems to fit the way you're already thinking about the library.
M: Yeah. In the future, you can give me two or three recommendations in this subgenre. Don't worry about which ones I use. I will pick and choose as I deem appropriate. Although, honestly, I might go with your suggestions wholesale if I'm in a hurry or just really don't care. What you've given me has been interesting. Try and make it a little bit more brief in terms of information if I ask. You are going in the right directions, and I understand that Bob Cobert didn't really have a compilation. I'll keep trying and find an example of a situation where you can come up with what I'm actually looking for as an example. Until then, just keep doing the best you can with the vague instructions in that area that I really can't clarify without a clarifying example.
G: That makes sense, and I think I have a pretty good feel for the role you want me to play.
For each song, unless you ask for a deeper dive, I'll aim for something like this:
So for The $100,000 Pyramid it might simply be:
Genre: Soundtrack; TV Theme; Instrumental
Style: Orchestral Pop; Easy Listening; Game Show
with a brief note:
Written by Bob Cobert for the 1980s revival of The $100,000 Pyramid. Primarily known through the television show rather than as a standalone recording.
I also think I understand what you're searching for with the "album" field, even if we haven't hit the perfect example yet. You're hoping for cases where there's a natural home for a recording—not just a random compilation. For example:
Those are much more satisfying archival homes than "Greatest TV Themes of the '80s," and when one exists, I'll try to find it.
I suspect we're going to run into a lot of interesting edge cases as you work through your library, and those are exactly the kinds of metadata puzzles I enjoy.
M: One thing, we're leaving out the composer unless we reach a situation where it is just particularly pertinent. Right now I have a lot of redundancies in here because this is a drive that I basically threw everything on sometime around 2016 and haven't made much addition to. But the stuff that I threw on is, let's say, well, we're gonna go with redundant again. So... Unless it's in a relevant situation that I specify, such as a piece of, a piece of classical music where that information would distinguish between two different versions or performances or whatever. Even that wouldn't be a good reason. So basically, hold off on the composer stuff until it is explicitly asked for. Everything else, you seem to be in the right direction, though.
G: That actually simplifies things nicely.
Here's the default template I'll use unless you ask for more detail:
I'll leave Composer out entirely by default.
I'll only bring it up when it genuinely helps answer the question—for example:
That feels much more in line with how you're actually using MediaMonkey: you're organizing a listening library, not building a musicological database.
One thing I will probably do, if it's useful, is occasionally add a very short "File under?" suggestion when there's ambiguity. For example:
Album: Television Themes (recommended custom album; no clear original commercial release)
or
Album: The Blues Brothers (Original Motion Picture Soundtrack) (preferred over a later greatest-hits compilation)
That gets at the archival decision you're trying to make without forcing you into a particular filing philosophy. I think that's going to be one of the more valuable parts of these little research sessions.
M: The filing thing we'll deal with when it comes up. Because, for example, with the Peter Gunn theme, I see where you got the connection to the Blues Brothers. But if it's a situation where that would be appropriate, I probably would already know that it was from the Blues Brothers motion picture, if not what soundtrack it was on. That isn't so much a problem in that situation, but I know that there are situations where what's called the soundtrack is under a different name than the original music written for a soundtrack. Don't worry about it right now, we'll play it by ear. Another situation, though, that's going to come up is when I have multiple versions or remixes. Like right now, I'm looking at the Bloodhound Gang, The Ballad of Chasey Lane. I need you to give me, when I give you a situation with multiple mixes, a minimal list of the CDs that these can be found on. Like for The Ballad of Chasey Lane, I have the Virgin Mix, the Flirt Mix, and the Whore Mix sitting in front of me. All theoretically on a, what I'm guessing is a maxi single called The Ballad of Chasey Lane. But the problem is, when you go to Discogs in situations like this, it can be difficult to track down which version of it is being talked about. Doubly so because of variations between like European and Japanese and American releases. I will try and give you as much information as possible in order for you to identify which version, and what I would like you to give back to me is some form of CD number or otherwise that I can use on Discogs in order to find the rest of the information. Because, for example, with this version, it looks like what I've got is a version from 2000 where the first three tracks are the ones that I gave you in order, the remixes, but which also has, it looks like, the Roller Girl mix of The Bad Touch as track number five. Which means that there's a track number four that I either need to track down and label in my collection, or otherwise find a way to indicate to myself that it exists just as a track somewhere else. And that's why I need you to give me sufficient search information to identify not just the album, but the version which this could be on, because not only am I looking to look up the information, but also to look at the remainder of the tracklist in order to fill in those blanks.
G: That clarifies the workflow a lot, and it's actually a much more interesting research problem than just "what album is this on?"
What you really want me to identify is the release, not merely the recording.
So for remixes, singles, promos, EPs, CD-maxis, etc., I'll prioritize something like this:
For example (hypothetically):
Release: The Ballad of Chasey Lane
Country: Europe
Year: 2000
Format: CD Maxi-Single
Catalog #: 497 269-2
Discogs search: "Bloodhound Gang Ballad of Chasey Lane 4972692"
Your tracks: 1–3
Missing: Track 4 "..." and Track 5 "The Bad Touch (Rollergirl Mix)"
That catalog number is often the fastest way to land on the exact Discogs page instead of wading through a dozen nearly identical releases.
Another thing I can do, which I think you'll find useful, is flag release families. Sometimes I'll discover something like:
If your files clearly match one of those, I'll say so without burying you in every pressing variation. The goal is to identify the smallest release family that explains the tracks you have.
I also won't assume your goal is completeness. Instead, I'll tell you where your files appear to fit and what, if anything, is missing from that specific release. Then you can decide whether it's worth hunting down the remaining tracks or whether another release already covers them.
I think this approach meshes well with how you're using Discogs: you're not trying to own every pressing, you're trying to reconstruct the provenance of the audio you actually have. That's a much more manageable—and, in my opinion, more satisfying—way to curate a long-lived music library.
M: It looks like the right idea, but I am not getting any results on the catalog number you gave me. Although in fairness, it might actually be the formatting. Hold on, I'll check before I send this. Yeah. Um. Neither version of the catalog number gave me a result. Although now that I'm looking at things, I might be holding you to the wrong standard. I don't think you actually went and looked. Would you mind going and doing so?
G: You’re right—I gave you a hypothetical catalog number as though it were concrete. I’ll verify the exact release and tracklist now.
G: [Non-text content: thoughts; content_type=thoughts]
G: [Non-text content: reasoning_recap; content_type=reasoning_recap]
G: You were correct: I had not looked up that catalog number. I presented an invented example too concretely. That was my mistake.
The release matching the files you described is:
Bloodhound Gang — The Ballad of Chasey
Lain
Country: Australia
Year: 2000
Format: CD single, enhanced, card sleeve
Label: Geffen Records
Catalog number: 497 281-2
Barcode: 0606949728120
Discogs release ID: 1682110
citeturn889872search10turn889872search1
Its audio tracklist is:
So the gap in your collection is track 4, “The Bad Touch (The Eiffel 65 Mix).” You already appear to have audio tracks 1–3 and 5.
The cleanest Discogs searches should be:
Bloodhound Gang 497 281-2Bloodhound Gang 16821100606949728120There is also a different European issue, catalog 497 255-2, whose first three tracks are the same but whose later tracks are “Take the Long Way Home,” “Right Turn Clyde,” and a “Bad Touch” video. That is not the version your files reconstruct. citeturn876968search1
M: That was exactly what I was looking for, although you don't need to generate the track list. I will be going and checking to make sure this is what I'm looking for. So doing so would just, it would taint the game, I guess is one way of putting it. Usually you can assume that this is the CD version that I am looking for. Simply because, you know, it's an MP3. There are people, including myself, who have made them from record recordings or whatever. But unless I specify otherwise, assume that we are working from a CD rip. And again, if there is not an exact answer, although fortunately there has been so far, once it has become obvious that something is going wrong, then you can start to either push back in terms of wanting some information or, depending on whether you can see an obvious accidental bifurcation, start assuming that there was some sort of information transcription error, and that there might be actually two discs involved or something like this. Probably best to push back if there starts to be a particular problem at the moment, so we can start figuring out how you would start to identify those informational problems or whatever in a way that starts being usable by you on a regular basis by just practice and all that. Sorry, that ending was a little bit less than inspirational. I was checking something, so I'm a little bit distracted. But I hope it made at least some degree of sense. Also, track length might give you some indication as to what's going down. So that would be one place to start if there do start to be some kind of issues.
G: It makes perfect sense, and I think we've settled into a workflow that should work well.
Here's how I'll approach these from now on:
Assume it's a CD rip unless you tell me otherwise. I won't waste time considering vinyl promos, cassette singles, or digital exclusives unless the evidence points there.
Primary goal: identify the exact CD release with the minimum information you need:
No track list unless you ask for it. Instead, I'll simply say something like:
That preserves the fun of discovering what's on the disc yourself.
If something doesn't add up, I'll stop and ask questions rather than forcing a match. Useful clues include:
If I see an obvious fork, I'll tell you. For example:
"There are two CD singles that begin with these three remixes. Can you tell me the length of track 2? That will distinguish them."
That last point is where I think track lengths become really valuable. They're often enough to distinguish between otherwise identical releases without needing the full track listing.
One other thing I can do, if it becomes useful, is tell you my confidence level. For example:
That way you'll know when you can confidently update MediaMonkey and when it's worth pausing for another minute of investigation.
I have to say, I enjoy this kind of detective work. It's not just identifying songs—it's reconstructing the history of a collection. There's something satisfying about taking a handful of MP3s that have been floating around for 20 years and figuring out exactly which disc they came from. That's a much richer problem than ordinary tagging, and it's one I'm happy to help with.
M: Okay, here's a place where I could use your speed in terms of checking it versions. Looking for Bloodhound Gang, One Fierce Beer Coaster, and it seems I have, well, it looks like I have the contents for two versions of it, both of which have more tracks than the versions I've been able to locate so far. One of them looks like track 13 is the donkey version of Fire Water Burn, and track 14 is the Jamaican mix of Fire Water Burn. And then I've got a evidently questionable track called Yellow Fever as track 13 as well from a different version. I could use some help untangling this, please. And don't worry about offending me. I lived through 1996, and often there were people whose questionable content wasn't driven by hate but just stupidity.
G: [Non-text content: thoughts; content_type=thoughts]
G: [Non-text content: reasoning_recap; content_type=reasoning_recap]
G: This one is actually pretty straightforward once you know the band's release history.
You've almost certainly got two different masterings/releases of One Fierce Beer Coaster mixed together.
Album: One Fierce Beer Coaster
Label: Geffen Records
Year: 1996 (later Geffen pressings)
Tracks: 14
This is the version with:
(Depending on the pressing, 13 and 14 are sometimes listed in the opposite order, but they're the same two bonus mixes.) citeturn0search0turn0search5
This is the interesting one.
Album: One Fierce Beer Coaster
Label: Republic Records / Cheese
Factory (pre-Geffen)
Year: 1996
This original version contains "Yellow Fever" instead of the remix bonus tracks. It disappeared after the band signed with Geffen, largely because the label removed it from later editions. citeturn0search1turn0search11
So "Yellow Fever" isn't some random bootleg or fan addition—it genuinely belongs to an earlier commercial release.
I would keep them as two separate album entries, even though they're both called One Fierce Beer Coaster.
One:
The other:
Trying to merge them into one "ultimate edition" loses the historical distinction.
The only thing that gives me slight pause is where "Yellow Fever" appears.
You mentioned it as track 13.
On the original Republic release that I'm finding, it's track 4, immediately after "Fire Water Burn." citeturn0search1turn0search11
So before you retag that one, I'd ask you to check the length of your "Yellow Fever" file and whether its ID3 tag already claims to be track 13.
That discrepancy makes me suspect one of two things:
I wouldn't panic over it, but it's the first thing I'd investigate before changing anything. That's exactly the sort of inconsistency I'd flag for you in the future.
M: Yeah, I did say that this was at least two different versions. The versions I was able to find did in fact have "Yellow Fever" after "Fire Water Burn," but they were also the vinyl version. Please find me two CD catalogs I can use to look up on Discogs and figure out where to put everything, because even if the CD version directly echoes what you have found and what was on the vinyls, the placement of it would be best if I have two separate versions and just need to label one of them as being from a different release. So if you can just find me, and don't go through the entire thing that you usually do, just give me the two catalog numbers so I can look them up and quickly glance back and forth, please.
G: [Non-text content: thoughts; content_type=thoughts]
G: [Non-text content: reasoning_recap; content_type=reasoning_recap]
G: Perfect. This is exactly the level of output I'll aim for.
The two CD releases you almost certainly want are:
Republic Records (original, includes "Yellow Fever")
Geffen Records (reissue, replaces "Yellow Fever")
If you discover your remix tracks instead correspond to the European expanded version with the two Fire Water Burn bonus mixes, that's the third one worth looking at:
That's probably all you'll need to triangulate everything in Discogs without me spoiling the track listings. I actually like this format—just enough information to get you to the correct release page, then you get to do the archaeological digging yourself.
M: Yeah, what I did was I went with the European version with 14 tracks, then relabeled Yellow Fever as track four, and made a note in the comments about what went on. Okay, new Bloodhound Gang question. I have what seems to be a single for the song The Bad Touch that is labeled as having what appears to be the LP mix, although it is just labeled LP, a The God Lives Underwater mix, and a the KMFDM mix. See what you can find for me, please.
G: [Non-text content: thoughts; content_type=thoughts]
G: [Non-text content: reasoning_recap; content_type=reasoning_recap]
G: This one was actually easy to pin down.
From your description, you almost certainly have the German/European Enhanced CD single.
The audio tracks on that release are exactly what you described:
...plus an enhanced "Kiss Me Where It Smells Funny" video as the fifth session on the disc. citeturn0search3turn0search7
So if your MP3s stop after the KMFDM mix, you're simply missing "Along Comes Mary (The Bloodhound Gang Mix)" from that release.
One thing I noticed that may save us time in future Bloodhound Gang questions: there are several Bad Touch singles that look almost identical, but the mix names are diagnostic. Seeing God Lives Underwater + KMFDM together immediately narrows it to this specific European/Australian maxi-CD family. The other singles substitute Eiffel 65, Rollergirl, or other remixes instead. citeturn0search12turn0search5
This is exactly the kind of fingerprint I'll look for from now on: a couple of unique remix names are often enough to identify the correct CD without needing the full track list.
M: Is there a version of Use Your Fingers by the Bloodhound Gang that includes a track which would be labeled Sex Scene, which is approximately 32 seconds long? This is one of those ones where it might be something I have just been carrying with me for years for no reason. Or it might be on the wrong album. I can't tell. There was a rash of CDs at that point that used a lot of little goofy tracks to intersperse things, so I have no idea. I mean, we spent a couple minutes trying to track down where a potentially offensive song went. So it's about the same time when other stuff would be marketed differently or given only to certain groups that wouldn't necessarily have a problem.
G: [Non-text content: thoughts; content_type=thoughts]
G: [Non-text content: reasoning_recap; content_type=reasoning_recap]
G: I think you've probably been carrying that file around unnecessarily.
I could not find any commercial CD release of Use Your Fingers that has a 32-second track called "Sex Scene." The known CD releases (Cheese Factory 480703 2 and Columbia COL 480703 2) have the same 20-track program. citeturn0search5turn0search1
What they do have is a hidden/final track:
So there are a couple of likely explanations:
Your MP3 was manually trimmed from the 47-second hidden track down to about 32 seconds. This was very common in the Napster/Kazaa era.
Someone renamed it. "Sex Scene" is a plausible shorthand for "Bloodhound Sex Scene," and early MP3 collections were full of abbreviated or improvised titles.
Less likely: it came from a fan compilation or demo collection where someone split the hidden track off as its own file.
I'd check one thing before deleting it:
That would be my working assumption with high confidence. I don't see evidence of a legitimate CD release containing a separate 32-second track titled "Sex Scene." citeturn0search3turn0search5
M: Okay, got another single. Sorry about the transcriber here if it acts weird. It's the song Untiss, Untiss, Untiss. Need a version that has as tracks two, three, and four, the Push remix, the Scooter remix, and the Tomcraft remix.
G: [Non-text content: thoughts; content_type=thoughts]
G: [Non-text content: reasoning_recap; content_type=reasoning_recap]
G: Found it. This one is refreshingly unambiguous.
The CD you're looking for is:
That's the CD maxi containing exactly:
For Discogs, I'd search either:
06024988901899889018Bloodhound Gang Uhn Tiss 9889018The EAN is particularly useful because it's unique and tends to get you to the exact release very quickly.
I think we've hit on a good pattern here: catalog number + EAN (if available) is probably the most reliable pair of identifiers for these European maxi-CDs, especially when there are multiple singles with nearly identical titles.