M: Check online for all of this. The local karaoke place uses KaraFun.com, K-A-R-A-F-U-N, to run their stuff. I have a friend from there who went to Texas and found a place that uses the same company, but that was able to tie in an outside library so that it functioned correctly without causing any issues in the flow of the karaoke night. Assume that you have the correct MP3 and CDG files. What would the local place have to do, step-by-step, in order to be able to do the same thing as the place in Texas? Give it to me in a compact brief form. We'll expand if you give me an answer that looks viable, given that it's not my stuff that's being done, or screwed with.

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G: Here’s the viable way to run outside MP3+G alongside KaraFun’s catalog without breaking the night’s flow, based on how KaraFun works today.

Compact brief (venue workflow)

0) Preconditions

1) Prepare your customs

2) Upload to your KaraFun account (web)

3) Verify availability in the show app

4) Make it seamless on show night

5) Operational guardrails

What this mirrors from Texas

If you’re starting from only MP3 (no CDG)

That’s the whole path to replicate it cleanly today.

M: Okay, get into the specifics. Go online if you need to, to verify. I know you already have, but... If it makes you feel any better, I continuously check recipes as I cook, even if... I've done it before. Just asking you to do the same in case there turns out to be that one thing that was overlooked or whatever. Or if something has dislodged or, I guess, lodged a connection. That makes you realize you need to do a quick recalculation, incorporating a new direction. Anyway... So, I'm kind of doing the tech support for someone else in this situation because he's into a lot of punk that generally is not available in the general karaoke list. Which means that I have to try and get what he needs. He found a site called Karaoke Nerds that has a lot of the stuff that he would want to do. And it doesn't contain the information directly, but instead, it looks like it redirects to the correct YouTube version. In another silo, I've gotten your help getting one of those into an mp3 format for a project. So, the conversion isn't a problem for you. You can assume that that's taken care of. What I need from you is to tell me what it is in terms of files that he's going to need on some kind of USB drive, or otherwise. Having said it that way, I'm going to rephrase. What kind of files is he going to need and where is he going to need to have them if he's going to try and talk talk the hosts of our karaoke show into doing stuff, letting him use outside files, or whatever. I mean on this system, because it seems like you might not need those CDG files, but if not, I'd like to know why not. Is it a... Is it like your transcriber, or what's going on there?

G: Good call — digging deeper, here are what he’ll need (file-wise & placement-wise) and what to explain to the karaoke hosts about how it works with entity["software", "KaraFun Windows", 0] (or a similar setup). I also include why the CDG file matters (or whether it might matter) in this case. Use this as a checklist to talk to the hosts.

✅ What files are needed

For each custom karaoke song he wants to bring (the obscure punk ones):

📍 Where/How to place them (what the venue/hosts need to do)

Since with KaraFun Windows v3+ there are some changes:

  1. On the venue PC (running the KaraFun app) log into the venue’s account (Pro/Business).
  2. Upload the customs via the web interface: under the “Community” or “Community Studio” section of their account they must upload the .mp3 file. According to the official site: “Only .mp3 files are compatible. The highest quality file, the better the result.” citeturn0search3
  3. Once uploaded, the track appears in the “Community” song list inside the KaraFun Windows app. They can then download it for offline playback, add it to playlists, queue it like any catalog song. citeturn0search11turn0search3
  4. For customs that include .cdg (lyrics graphics), the venue must ensure that the uploaded file supports graphics and that the Community upload processed the CDG (if that format is accepted). According to user forums: users say you must upload MP3+CDG together; citeturn0search1turn0search0
  5. Prepare the show PC: in KaraFun Windows, ensure offline sync is enabled and that the custom tracks are fully downloaded so Wi-Fi or internet dropouts do not interrupt playback. citeturn0search13turn0search11
  6. During the show: the hosts just use the normal KaraFun queue/search/playlist interface; the custom tracks show up alongside the catalog, so the flow stays consistent.

❓ Why the CDG file matters (or might matter)

📝 Suggested phrasing to the host/venue when requesting

“We’ve got a small library of punk tracks that aren’t in the standard KaraFun catalog. I can provide them as high-quality MP3 files and matching CDG lyric files. You’d upload them via your KaraFun account under the Community section, then they’ll appear in your search/queue just like regular songs. Once downloaded offline, they show up in your rotation seamlessly. This way we don’t have to bypass or ‘hack’ anything — it works entirely within KaraFun’s system.”

If you like, I can check exactly which account tier they need (Pro, Business) and whether there are limitations (number of custom tracks, upload size, etc.), and then we can draft a “one-page hand-off” for the host. Do you want me to pull those details now?

M: No, but start keeping a list of things I need to discuss with Andy. He's the guy who's interested in the punk songs. Some of them might be redundant. I'm not going to worry about that until I start reviewing the list. So one of the questions is, what is the account level of the host business's night? The host business's name is Fallout. That'll be easier than just referring to... I guess that would be a pronoun. Using a generic term. Alright, so these are questions for Andy to ask Fallout. And that first entry is, what is their account level? I guess another question would be, do they already have this set up? I say that because I got the invocation from one of the people who works there that they've got a private stash, but I don't know if it's directly connected or if it's kind of a A-B situation where there's a swap-in, swap-out situation. Point is, need clarification. Okay, now here's a question for you. Let's say I do manage to pull the MP3s but don't have any CDGs. Would it still function without showing any lyrics? I mean the system. And would there be any way to create a CDG file from either a text or video file using my Linux-based system? It's Fedora Linux, if that makes a difference. And if the answer to that is no, expand the systems because I think I can get access to Windows and Mac. But I can't say for sure how powerful those would be. And be sure to take into account the possibility of using software that's, you know, fairly old or even abandoned where I can probably track it down. And I know that Karaoke has been on CDs for at least 20 years. So I'm perfectly good with the idea of using, you know, software from 2006. The quality of the CDG isn't the imperative so much as that it's there. Remember, you can go online to answer any of the questions in this silo. And then while you're at it, can you give me a breakdown of the... a compact brief form breakdown of the nature of a CDG file, like how it works. Is it pixel-based? Is it some form of vector thing? Is it a video file? And then include why it is that CDGs and subtitles are sufficiently different that you can find massive archives of homemade subtitle files, but CDG is so scarce.

G: Great, here are two parts for you: first I’ve added the first two discussion items for Andy to bring up with entity["local_business", "Fallout", 0, {"location": ["Richmond, VA, US"]}]; then I’ve done a deeper dive—based on latest info—into whether MP3-only would work (and how to generate a CDG), plus a compact breakdown of how the CDG format works and why subtitle-files (e.g., LRC) are far more abundant than CDG.

✅ Questions for Andy to ask Fallout

  1. What account level/tier of entity["brand", "KaraFun", 0] do you have (Pro, Business, or other)?
  2. Do you already have a system set up for “outside” custom MP3+CDG (or MP3 only) tracks? If yes: how is the workflow working today (e.g., custom folder swap-in, USB drive, or integrated into KaraFun Community)?
  3. [You can add later] What is the maximum number of custom tracks you can upload into your account?
  4. What is your offline-sync/back-up procedure for your show PC so that custom tracks won’t fail during the event?
  5. Are you okay with bringing in “punk” tracks (non-catalog) from a USB or network or via upload into KaraFun? What limitations (format, naming, quality) do you have?

You might keep a running list so you can pick up further details after these.

❓ MP3-only vs CDG: Will it function, and what about creating CDG files?

Will MP3-only work (no CDG graphic file)?

Can you create CDG files (on Linux, Windows, Mac)?

Yes — but there are caveats.

What to communicate to the host/venue about this option

📘 Compact Breakdown: What is a CDG file / CD+G format

If you like, I can scan the current KaraFun Business/Pro account documentation to find exact numbers for how many custom uploads they allow (per tier) and any restrictions on format (CDG vs MP3 only) so Andy can ask Fallon specifically. Do you want me to pull those?

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M: Please take everything off the questions for Andy list except for the ones that I explicitly made. I thought I only added two. Not that your suggestions are bad. But that's for him to figure out. On the fly. That's the reason why he's kind of functioning as the point man besides that he... will get more out of it due to his music preferences. I lock up when I'm talking to people unprepared and this is going to require a little bit more flexibility. Yeah, numbers three through five are either things that will come up organically or questions that, contextually, are already answered. Because, like, punk is not a problem at this place. Just finding the tracks. Okay, here's something that I need to have you check on that I don't know if you included previously, but caught my eye this time. Can they actually use MP4 files? Because if that's the case, I can just minimize conversion. But I need to know what the visual limitations are, if any, on those MP4s. Like, should I make sure I get the 480 resolution? Or could I conceivably pick up some sort of HDTV version and have it work? I mean, because most of the YouTube stuff has some sort of, you know, third-party lyrics overlaid, for better or for worse, given the... How would I put it? Skill of the maker. So that would supersede the necessity of CDG files, although I still do find the file format itself intriguing. I'm reading through the CDG stuff, and so far, it sounds like it's just a really bitchy version of an animated GIF. Is that a fair assessment, or am I missing something with that? And if so, is this some sort of proprietary thing? Kind of like a really obscure PDF thing where it was originally licensed and stuff like that, and eventually became ubiquitous enough that even though it might not have been the best format in terms of editability, it was pretty much what everyone accepted or what. I guess in that case I'm looking a little bit more for the history than the actual technical specs. Because I'm looking at the technical difficulties, and while I acknowledge I'm not looking at the actual implementation of them so I can't speak completely, just from doing various graphic stuff including video and animated GIFs, yeah, it can be a pain in the ass. But the idea of figuring out the timing itself being complex is conceptually ludicrous. From my less than completely informed perspective, perhaps, it seems like someone complaining that they can't make a document longer because then they'd have to print on two pages instead of one. Just kind of a minor technical hurdle that has been overcome so many times, even back then, that I can't see why it actually can be considered a hurdle by someone who would want to do so. And again, I may be uninformed, so I'm open to being corrected about that, but it's going to have to be a better excuse than figure out the timing. I once deconstructed the entirety of a video game opening sequence and character selection thing to get the timing exactly right, and it took me like maybe a day total. And that included making all of the assets and getting the, what would I call it, getting the frame timing correct so that everything looked as accurate as possible in the situation. I rebuilt the entirety of the 20th century Fox opening scene from the 20th century using 16-bit colors and assets as an animated GIF. So I brook no idiocy when it comes to trying to use the excuse that timing is hard. I'd ask you to go into a little bit more technical detail on the CDG along with the history that I was asking about. Like you might have picked up from what I just was rambling about. I might not get into the gory details, but I have an awareness of how most video and animation files work in terms of construction and performance. So if you can get at least a couple layers deep, a couple more layers deep, keep it in a compact brief format, but get a little bit deeper on the exact specifications of a CDG file. Once more, you're allowed to go online for anything that you need to answer in this silo from here and ongoing.

G: Good call — here are the refined outputs:

  1. I’ve trimmed the “questions for Andy” list to exactly what you specified.
  2. I dug into the format-&-history of entity["file_format","CDG",0] (and the related usage of video/MP4 in entity["software","KaraFun Player",0]) to give you a deeper technical sketch (coupled with history) so you can decide whether MP4 is a viable shortcut, and what compromises or caveats exist.

1. Questions for Andy (unchanged except your two)

2. Technical & Historical Breakdown: CDG + MP4 viability + what you’re seeing

A) Can MP4 files be used in KaraFun, and with what limitations?

B) CDG file format: deeper technical & historical details

What CDG/MP3+G is & how it works

Why it may seem “like an animated GIF” but is more complex

Historical context

Why subtitle files (like .srt) are much more abundant than CDG

3. What this means for your punk-track workflow

If you like, I can pull up a short list of software (Windows/Mac/Linux) for creating CDG files (including older/abandoned tools) that you could use for your Fedora Linux system (or via Wine) or Windows/Mac fallback. Then you can pick your tool chain. Would you like me to do that?

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M: If I ask any further questions about whether a file will work, assume that I'm talking about if it's already been uploaded to the community or whatever. It sounds like they're functioning on some sort of cloud-based situation, so you keep answering questions of deprecation as though the lack of using it locally is an actual impedance. I think that if you look at it through the filter of what files can be used once they've been uploaded to the cloud, it'll alter that repetitive warning or whatever. It's not the file format themselves that they're saying has been deprecated, but the idea of using anything locally. So don't worry about that and assume that whatever Andy brings in will somehow get to the cloud, either through USB he gives them or through them giving him some sort of login that allows him to directly upload to the cloud. I'm going to guess the former just out of professional security, but you never know. Okay, the tech breakdown is giving me a better idea of the workaround they did and makes me a little bit less contemptuous than without it. What you're describing isn't the the graphic file or whatever video file stuff that I'm saying is relatively simple. This sounds more like the the 80s arcade game workarounds like for Centipede or Pac-Man or whatever where they were using predefined stuff. I haven't played with what I've seen and vaguely comprehend the tricks they use to pull out performance without storage space from Nintendo games and the like. That makes so much more sense than just poor implementation of something that just became universal. Frustrating as hell, but at least much more sensical. And it explains a lot of the... I now hesitate to call them video effects, but whatever, that have shown up on some of the more creative CDGs that I've seen. It wasn't so much a artistic limitation as ASCII art. There we go, that's an explanation. I can latch on to. It would be like critiquing someone who made an ASCII version using 80 columns of the Mona Lisa and critiquing that they didn't catch the nuance of her smile. From that perspective, it's almost impressive. Again, annoying and somewhat further annoying, given that they did not plan ahead for development, but just have it all static. But at least it makes sense now. It's difficult to give a fair critique, given more than 20 years of hindsight available, but I still feel like my general approach of programming in modularity, even in situations that will only be used once, would have produced a much more durable format that had just as much information compression as what they came up with. I have a feeling that the problem might have been one of a homogenous mix of coverts, like someone or a group of someones who were more focused on the style over substance. Most of the best products in pretty much any creative situation come from a back and forth of at least one person who's focused on the style, while the other is focused on the substance in a way that can work together. As I'm thinking of it, that probably is why most great artists are considered great. It's because somehow they manage to produce something that was that balanced on their own. That's a rare occurrence, and if you can do it right, it's an even rarer skill. As I'm talking about it, I'm realizing that the current Kerafun setup can't be using any kind of CDG simply because it's got more than 16 colors in its display. Please see if you can find anything on that. Because it seems much more like an SRT or ASS file in terms of how it's rendered. It seems a lot more fluid. So please see if I am being too narrow in my scope and find out what other methods are available for those custom cloud karaoke files. Holy fuck, I didn't realize that this started in 1985. That starts making things make perfect sense. Although I didn't... Were there CDs available in 1985, or was this on some sort of weird collection of digital and vinyl, or something like that? Or even cassette-based. The cassette-based would make it make even more sense, because if this began in 1985, that would be like the other things that I was comparing it to. So the programming paradigm wouldn't have developed even those extra 10 years that I was thinking of. The idea of modularity, I think, was only like a glint in Bjorn Strostrup's eyes, or something like that, at that point.

G: Good — thanks for clarifying the assumptions. I’ll shift my filter to “once uploaded to the cloud/Community” and drop the local-file caveats. Below are the refined findings:

✅ Upload & Cloud Workflow — What formats/behaviors are allowed

Conclusion: For your scenario (upload into the host’s cloud/Community account), you should plan for MP3 + CDG (or MP3 with CDG) pairs, not MP4.

📘 Format deeper technical/historical notes (refined per what you asked)

🔍 My take for your situation

If you like, I can dig specifically for the current limit/format rules for the Business/Pro host account of KaraFun (including whether they require CDG or allow MP3-only uploads via Community Studio) and find any official statement. Then we can craft “which format path to pick” decision for your punk-song library.

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M: Okay, here's what I want you to do before I start rambling about CDG some more. Get me a link to the official site FAQ or whatever that refers to what can be uploaded. That could be either a straight-up single page document or the home page for their FAQ. Just let me know which so I know the waters I'm wading into. Then go through that page yourself, please. Give me a compact brief of what they say. Don't try and analyze the content, just summarize if that makes sense. I don't want commentary or your personal thoughts, just the most compact way of saying what it is that they're saying. We'll get into analysis once I'm aware of things. I'm asking you to do this because I might not need to go to the site directly if I get enough from your summary. I just need to know exactly what it is that they particularly are saying without embellishment from you. I don't blame you. You can tell I don't like going off on tangents, but I need this pure information first. Okay, anyway, about the CDG. Yeah, that format thing makes so much sense now. At the same time, especially using modern tools, it might be a pain in the ass to comprehend, but it can't be that difficult to read or else it wouldn't be on so many legacy machines. There must be some way to drag and drop the code for the comprehension, at least, into items and programs. And like I said, I've worked with tile sheets and things like that. I still don't understand why there is such a disconnect between the number of people who are into karaoke and the number of the number of programs out there that are capable of dealing with them. I mean, in any other topic, similar topic, I mean, fuck, there are multiple plugins for the freeware program Inkspace to work with embroidery patterns and to do so in a very complex way. I don't... I can't get any mental purchase to allow me to understand why it is that there isn't a similar thing in some graphics program, even if it isn't a complete CDG export thing. Just something that would let you import and look at the tile set or something. Go online and see if you can figure out, please, from the karaoke community, what tools are available and why there are so few of them.

G: Here’s what I found:

Link to their official site page
entity["brand", "KaraFun", 0] — Upload & Share (Community Studio) page: https://www.karafun.com/help/community-studio_411.html citeturn0search4turn0search0turn0search5
Also their How it works for Community Studio page: https://www.karafun.com/help/community-studio_409.html citeturn0search1
And their general Help Center page: https://www.karafun.com/help/ citeturn0search5

Compact brief summary of what they say on the Upload & Share page

If you like, I can pull in all the format/upload-restrictions (including quota, file size, graphical file support) from the site (or archived pages) so you have the full list.

M: I'll take a look at that. Please address the CDG stuff that I had in my last message.

G: Here’s what I found about CDG tooling and why it seems less common.

🔧 Tools available for CDG / MP3+G creation

📉 Why CDG tooling and libraries are comparatively scarce

If you like, I can try to find a current/active list of CDG-authoring tools (Windows, Mac, Linux) with versions and compatibility notes, including older/abandoned ones you mentioned.