M: let’s say i wanted to collect
original versions of the movies shown in mst3k, take the audio from the
mst3k versions, and superimpose it on the original in a separate track
(because i’m pretty sure some movies were cropped down for time). i have
an idea of how i would go about it; tell me how you’d go about it, to
see if you have any shortcuts or ideas regarding complications.
G: Nice project—definitely doable,
but there are a few major time sinks and technical annoyances depending
on how faithful you want to be. Here’s how I’d approach it, broken down
by phase, with notes on shortcuts and complications:
🧩 Phase 1: Source Acquisition
1. Original Films
(Unriffed)
- Goal: Find the highest-quality version (preferably
the original aspect ratio, uncut).
- Sources:
- Archive.org (especially for public domain films)
- Boutique DVD releases (e.g., Shout! Factory, Kino, Mill Creek)
- Rare film collector forums or torrent trackers (for non-commercially
available versions)
2. MST3K Episodes
- Goal: Get digital rips with the best audio
fidelity, even if video is VHS-tier.
- Sources:
- Official DVD sets
- Archive.org or trading communities (many fans have ripped every
episode)
🎬 Phase 2: Timeline Syncing
- Use FFmpeg to demux the MST3K episode:
ffmpeg -i mst3k_episode.mkv -map 0:a -vn mst3k_audio.wav
4. Riff Track
Isolation
- You may want to isolate the riffing from the movie
audio:
- MST3K audio is usually a composite mix of movie +
riffers.
- Options:
- Accept the bleed (easiest).
- Phase inversion: if you have the clean movie audio
from the original film, invert and subtract (can cancel the
film audio).
- AI vocal isolation (e.g. Adobe Podcast Enhance,
Demucs) to split the voices and background.
⏱ Phase 3: Audio/Video Sync
5. Aligning Audio to
Original Video
- This is the most labor-intensive part due to:
- Scene cuts, trims, or reordering in MST3K
versions.
- Intros/outros and host segments breaking up the
film.
- Workflow:
- Open both videos side by side in DaVinci Resolve,
Premiere, or even Kdenlive.
- Identify scene anchors (use a slate or visual marker at key riffed
moments).
- Use slip edits or nested sequences
to preserve sync between riff and visual reference.
🔧 Shortcut Tip: Align first 5 riffable moments, and
interpolate from there. Most MST3K edits are block trims—not
micro-edits.
🗂 Phase 4: Exporting &
Track Management
6. Export with
Multiple Audio Tracks
- Format: MKV or MP4 with:
- Track 1: Original audio
- Track 2: MST3K riff audio
ffmpeg -i original_video.mp4 -i mst3k_audio.wav \
-map 0:v -map 0:a -map 1:a \
-c:v copy -c:a aac -shortest \
metadata:s:a:1 language=eng \
output_with_tracks.mkv
7. Optional
Subtitles
- If you isolate riff dialog, you could create
subtitles for just the riffs.
- Tools: Aegisub, Whisper (for
auto-transcribe), Subtitle Edit.
⚠ Complications and Gotchas
8. Timing Mismatches
- MST3K edits sometimes jump over “dead air” or add pauses. Riffers
may react to timing beats that don’t exist in the original version.
9. Different Cuts
- Some MST3K movies use different prints than available now
(TV versions, VHS masters). Be prepared to hunt matching frames or
rebuild scenes.
10. Audio Licensing
Weirdness
- For personal archiving, you’re fine. But the riffs are
copyrighted, so public remixing would trigger IP conflicts.
🧠 Alternate Approaches /
Time-Savers
A. Use Rifftrax Style
Instead
- Overlay the riff audio as a downloadable, time-coded track (like
Rifftrax does), requiring the user to provide the movie.
- Pros: Zero video editing.
- Cons: User sync required.
B. Automated Scene
Matching
- Use tools like SceneCut or scenedetect
to segment both versions and match cuts programmatically.
Let me know how much you want to automate vs. finesse, and I can help
design a semi-automated workflow—especially if you're doing this for
multiple episodes.
M: tell me about the scene matching
software. then tell me what audio software you’d suggest on fedora to do
the audio splicing work - preferably something that can give visual
salignments of the waveforms and allow for easy clipping to allow the
phase-inversion methodology
G: Absolutely—let’s break it down
into two parts: scene matching software and
audio editing tools on Fedora.
🎞️ PART 1: Scene Matching
Software
🔍 Goal:
Detect where scenes begin and end in both the original film and the
MST3K version so you can:
- Compare timestamps
- See what was cut or trimmed
- Align segments without manual frame-scrubbing
1. PySceneDetect
- Homepage: https://pyscenedetect.readthedocs.io/
- What it does: Automatically detects scene
boundaries using content or threshold-based detection.
- How it works:
scenedetect -i your_video.mp4 detect-content list-scenes
- Pros:
- CLI-based and scriptable
- Outputs a list of scene timestamps
- Works with
ffmpeg to extract clips
- Cons:
- Can’t match scenes between videos natively—just identifies scenes
per video
2. SceneCut
- GitHub: https://github.com/Breakthrough/SceneCut
- What it does: Extends scene detection with machine
learning
- Status: Less actively maintained, but offers
deep-cut detection
- Note: This is more experimental. PySceneDetect is
more practical for your workflow.
3.
Match Cuts Manually With OCR or Hashing (optional)
- Use frame hashing (via
ffmpeg + perceptual hash) or
OCR-based fingerprinting to match scene start/end frames across two
different video versions. This is complex but doable with scripting and
tools like ImageHash or OpenCV.
🧠 Suggested Workflow
- Run PySceneDetect on both videos.
- Export CSV with timestamps.
- Create a spreadsheet or script to find overlapping/matching
timestamps.
- Use matched scene blocks to align riff audio to original film.
If needed, I can help write a script to do overlap testing and rough
scene pairing.
🔊 PART 2: Audio Software for
Fedora
You’ll want a tool that allows:
- Multi-track waveform viewing
- Easy region selection
- Phase inversion
- Cut, split, and export per segment
- (Optional) Spectrogram view for deep cleanup
🎚️ Best Options
1. Audacity
- Install:
sudo dnf install audacity
- Pros:
- Intuitive waveform display
- Supports multi-track editing
- You can invert one track, align it with another, and mix to
subtract
- Built-in effects: Invert, Normalize, Noise
Removal, etc.
- How to do phase inversion:
- Load original movie audio and MST3K track
- Duplicate original movie audio
- On one copy:
Effect → Invert
- Mix the inverted with the MST3K audio to attempt removal
- Cons: Not non-destructive (changes are committed
unless you manually undo)
2. Ardour
- Install:
sudo dnf install ardour
- Pros:
- Professional-grade DAW (digital audio workstation)
- Fully non-destructive, with advanced routing and automation
- Great for syncing tracks over long-form content
- Cons:
- Steeper learning curve
- Requires JACK or PipeWire audio config to be set up properly
3. Reaper
(via WINE or native Linux tarball)
- Not open source, but extremely efficient and pro-tier.
- Free evaluation forever (uncrippled).
- Excellent waveform visualization and phase control.
- Available as native Linux binary: https://www.reaper.fm/download.php
⚙️ Short
Summary of Phase-Inversion Workflow in Audacity
- Load both original and MST3K audio.
- Select original movie audio →
Effect > Invert.
- Play both tracks together; ideally the movie audio will cancel
out.
- What’s left should mostly be riffs + some artifacts.
- Export that as a new clean riff track (or use for syncing).
⚠️ Caveats for Inversion
- It only works well if the MST3K used the
exact audio print you're subtracting.
- If the riff track was mixed with compression or timing differences,
results will be partial.
- You may need manual EQ or noise gating to remove
bleed that wasn't cancelled cleanly.
Let me know how deep you want to go into automating the alignment or
scripting scene pair matching. I can help design a toolchain that lets
you rip through batches if you're doing this at scale.
M: i was actually a big user of cool
edit pro 2000. would you be able to help me set that up through wine
G: Yes—Cool Edit Pro 2000 can
usually be run just fine on modern Linux via WINE, and
given your experience, that might be the most intuitive tool for your
workflow.
Here’s a detailed step-by-step guide tailored for
Fedora to get Cool Edit Pro 2000
running smoothly under WINE, with notes for stability and audio
compatibility.
🛠️ STEP 1: Install WINE
(if not installed)
Optionally install winetricks for extra configuration
help:
sudo dnf install winetricks
Check WINE version:
If you’re using Fedora 38+ and have PipeWire, audio
should work out of the box. Otherwise, PulseAudio support should also be
compatible, but let me know if you get audio glitches.
📁 STEP 2: Set Up a
WINE Prefix for Cool Edit
This keeps Cool Edit isolated and avoids polluting your default WINE
install.
WINEPREFIX=~/.wine-cooledit winecfg
- Set Windows version to Windows XP or
Windows 2000.
- Click OK to initialize the prefix.
📦 STEP 3: Install Cool Edit
Pro 2000
If you have an installer:
WINEPREFIX=~/.wine-cooledit wine /path/to/setup.exe
If it's a portable version or already extracted:
mkdir -p ~/.wine-cooledit/drive_c/ProgramFiles/CoolEdit2000
cp -r /path/to/extracted/files/* ~/.wine-cooledit/drive_c/ProgramFiles/CoolEdit2000/
Then you can launch it with:
WINEPREFIX=~/.wine-cooledit wine ~/.wine-cooledit/drive_c/ProgramFiles/CoolEdit2000/cooledit.exe
🎚️ STEP 4: Audio Tweaks
If playback sounds choppy
or silent:
- Run:
WINEPREFIX=~/.wine-cooledit winecfg
- Go to the Audio tab and test audio output.
- If you’re using PipeWire, WINE will default to PulseAudio
compatibility mode—usually works.
- For lower latency: set
Default Sample Rate to
44100 Hz and reduce buffer sizes.
🎨 STEP 5: (Optional) Create
a Shortcut
Add to your .desktop files:
[Desktop Entry]
Name=Cool Edit Pro 2000
Exec=env WINEPREFIX=~/.wine-cooledit wine C:\\\\ProgramFiles\\\\CoolEdit2000\\\\cooledit.exe
Type=Application
Icon=audio-x-generic
Categories=AudioVideo;Audio;Editing;
Save as ~/.local/share/applications/cooledit.desktop
📼 STEP 6: Using
Cool Edit for Phase Inversion
Here’s a quick refresher (you probably remember this, but to make
sure):
- Load MST3K track in track 1.
- Load original movie audio in track 2.
- Highlight movie audio → Effects > Invert.
- Mix both tracks → the movie audio cancels, leaving the riff
(ideally).
- Save/export the remaining track or work from it as an overlay
guide.
Cool Edit’s visual waveform alignment tools will likely make this
more intuitive for you than newer DAWs.
🧨 Troubleshooting
| Audio doesn’t play |
Make sure PipeWire or PulseAudio is running. Use
pavucontrol to debug. |
| App doesn’t launch |
Run with WINEDEBUG=-all to silence logs, or check
~/.wine-cooledit logs |
| File dialog crashes |
Happens sometimes—use drag & drop instead if available. |
| UI flickers or breaks |
Try switching to Windows XP mode or using winecfg to
enable emulation. |
If you give me the installer type you’re using (EXE or ZIP), I can
give you a direct setup string with full paths prefilled.
Also: if Cool Edit ever acts flaky or misbehaves under WINE, we can
run it in Bottles (GUI wrapper for WINE) for better
isolation and compatibility tuning. But most likely you won’t need
to.
Let me know when you want to move to batch syncing tracks or
scripting anything.